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Old 01-06-2017, 12:31 AM   #1
Tomes of Deceit
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Immolation - Atonement

Looking forward to this album, I like Destructive Currents a lot. I've been listening to Shadows in the Light and Harnessing Ruin the last few days in anticipation. I never listened to the last two.

Kind of feels like a new phase with the return of the old logo and the first lineup change since 14 years ago.

How much am I missing on the last two? I am curious how people would rank the albums with Shalaty on drums.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:16 AM   #2
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

You're missing out without Majesty and Decay in your life. The songs are shorter and are lacking some of the epic-ness that Immo can be great at, but the overall riff quality is very very strong. I think it's a far better album than either Harnessing Ruin or Shadows..

You're not, however, missing out on Kingdom of Conspiracy. I personally enjoy it, but it just isn't memorable at all. I don't know if the riffs are lacking, or if the awful brickwalled production just makes the whole thing an overloud and indistinguishable mess, but it's by no means essential listening. In fact, post-Unholy Cult, Majesty and Decay is probably the only genuinely great Immo record. The rest are pretty underwhelming compared to their opening five album stretch.

(Having said all that, I still love 'em, still have a great time listening to their average efforts, and am hella 'xcited about a new one!)
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:59 PM   #3
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

That preview track is unbelievably boring. How could any serious metal listener not hear this? Like, it's just objectively terrible and stale material. Don't think I'll ever be able to figure out what people see in this band.
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Old 01-07-2017, 05:18 PM   #4
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sculpy View Post
You're missing out without Majesty and Decay in your life. The songs are shorter and are lacking some of the epic-ness that Immo can be great at, but the overall riff quality is very very strong. I think it's a far better album than either Harnessing Ruin or Shadows..

You're not, however, missing out on Kingdom of Conspiracy. I personally enjoy it, but it just isn't memorable at all. I don't know if the riffs are lacking, or if the awful brickwalled production just makes the whole thing an overloud and indistinguishable mess, but it's by no means essential listening. In fact, post-Unholy Cult, Majesty and Decay is probably the only genuinely great Immo record. The rest are pretty underwhelming compared to their opening five album stretch.

(Having said all that, I still love 'em, still have a great time listening to their average efforts, and am hella 'xcited about a new one!)
I agree that Majesty and Decay is the best full length they've released post-2002 - and also that most of the other stuff has been personally enjoyable, but underwhelming - but I'd suggest that the Providence EP is the best overall release during that time period. I honestly think it's on par with anything they did through the first 5 albums.
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:32 PM   #5
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

New track has done very little for me, but the last two records are really good. I think I like each as the other, Shadows really bores me, it has not aged well.
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:46 PM   #6
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Shalaty's over-processed drum sound just lets the band down once again. Its not the worst by any stretch but just feels like Immo-by-numbers at this stage
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:40 PM   #7
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Ah, I love Immolation threads.

I consider the band's Metal Blade releases (HIA, FFG, CTAWB) one of the biggest highlights of the genre. Their post 2000 releases are weaker, but still great in my book. I prefer Unholy Cult and Harnessing Ruin over the rest, but I honestly love them all. Kingdom Of Conspiracy has the most sterile sounding production, which is one of the reasons many people (including me) think it's less interesting than the other albums.

I'm digging the new song, especially production wise. As for the new cover artwork, I never liked the old logo, and I never enjoyed Par Olofsson's artworks. Most of them look like generic BDM artworks to me. Marschall > Olofsson, without question.

I've never been a big fan of Taylor, and I have no problem with his departure. We'll see what Bouks brings to the mix. It seems Ross and Bob are happy with Shalaty, but I think his drumming is quite bland compared to what Hernandez and Smilowski had to offer.

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Like, it's just objectively terrible and stale material.
How can a musical piece be objectively terrible?

Last edited by temproh; 01-10-2017 at 03:03 PM..
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:37 PM   #8
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

I think their old logo is one of the best in the genre.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:44 AM   #9
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Quote:
Originally Posted by temproh View Post
How can a musical piece be objectively terrible?
When I say it is.
This band hasn't written a good track in a decade and for some reason people refuse to write them off. They're more tired than CC.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:55 PM   #10
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichtbringer View Post
When I say it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichtbringer View Post
This band hasn't written a good track in a decade...
So you do like the old albums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichtbringer View Post
... and for some reason people refuse to write them off.
Even if that were true, why would it bother you so much? I'm asking because you seem to bring that up everytime Immolation is mentioned.

And I don't really care for CC, but the band seems far from tired to me.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:29 PM   #11
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Licht just isnt a fan of theirs. Immo isn't for everyone. I agree with a lot of what everyone said in this thread. Can't say I get excited about Immolation like i did 15-20 years ago and that is ok.
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:38 PM   #12
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Death metal is dead.


Long live death metal.


\m/(>_<)\m/
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:57 PM   #13
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichtbringer View Post
This band hasn't written a good track in a decade
Which was the last track that was "good"?
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:38 PM   #14
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

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Originally Posted by Nihilist View Post
Which was the last track that was "good"?

From Of Majesty and Decay, I'd say that A Glorious Epoch and The Rapture of Ghosts are really good songs. From Providence, What They Bring, Still Lost and Swallow The Fear are also really good songs.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:41 PM   #15
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

I actually thought Providence was pretty good. It's not anything mindblowing but there's some catchy material there for sure. Some bands don't need to be anything more than that, and even Immolation's old material I think is about the same way. Not every band needs to have crazy virtuoso shredding and technicality just for the sake of having it.

I can see both sides though, they can get kind of boring after a bit, but I don't expect much from them to begin with honestly. Some catchy riffs here and there and I'm satisfied.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:05 PM   #16
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Quote:
Originally Posted by temproh View Post
It seems Ross and Bob are happy with Shalaty, but I think his drumming is quite bland compared to what Hernandez and Smilowski had to offer.
He's solid, but definitely bland in comparison with his predecessors, and this fact is constantly highlighted by the way the drums have been produced during most of his time in the band. I think this puts more onus on Bob to write interesting riffs to keep the listener's attention, and you just can't do that 100% of the time. In my mind, it's similar to (but less extreme than) later Ozzy era Sabbath; Ozzy's vocal limitations put increasing pressure on Iommi to keep churning out classic riffs. When he wasn't able to do that consistently, the albums became flat and boring.

I'm still fairly entertained by recent Immolation because I'll always enjoy Vigna's sideways riffing, but I think they'd sound a little better with someone who was capable of working in off-kilter and interesting drum fills like Smilowski and Hernandez did so consistently through the first five albums. I don't think it's coincidental that my favorite album post 2002, Majesty and Decay, also happens to be the album with Shalaty's most ambitious work and least generic overall drum mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailed To Gold View Post
From Of Majesty and Decay, I'd say that A Glorious Epoch and The Rapture of Ghosts are really good songs. From Providence, What They Bring, Still Lost and Swallow The Fear are also really good songs.
I generally agree with this track selection, though I'd add In Human Form and The Rapture of Ghosts from Majesty and Decay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Works0fheart View Post
I actually thought Providence was pretty good. It's not anything mindblowing but there's some catchy material there for sure. Some bands don't need to be anything more than that, and even Immolation's old material I think is about the same way. Not every band needs to have crazy virtuoso shredding and technicality just for the sake of having it.
I think a lot of people have a strange and limited idea of what comprises technicality to begin with. Many equate it with the aforementioned shredding virtuosity, others with endlessly winding arpeggios as riffs, and others still with ADD-styled structures based on a million riffs that visit everywhere and ultimately go nowhere. Around 15 years ago, somebody objected when I made reference to technicality of Suffocation in general and Breeding the Spawn in particular. He insisted that their riff style and songwriting was straightforward and simple (which I personally disagree with), and offered Necrophagist, Psycroptic, and Spawn of Possession as being more accurate examples of technicality. I've run into similar walls a small handful of times over the years, and people always tend to thrust forward overt bands of that type as the proper correction to my perceived gaffes.

Maybe I just have a different idea of what is or not technically proficient, but I consider things like tempo changes, use of irregular meter, regular meter changes, non-traditional song structure, and non-linear rhythmic patterns in addition to the aforementioned categories. So in different senses, I'd consider many types of death metal bands, from Immolation to Gorguts, from Portal to Cryptopsy, from Yattering to Atrocity, etc. as fairly technical bands in addition to your more obvious Wormed, Brain Drill, Decrepit Birth, etc.

Last edited by Chris Rezendes; 01-11-2017 at 08:07 PM..
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:08 AM   #17
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

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Originally Posted by Chris Rezendes View Post
I'm still fairly entertained by recent Immolation because I'll always enjoy Vigna's sideways riffing, but I think they'd sound a little better with someone who was capable of working in off-kilter and interesting drum fills like Smilowski and Hernandez did so consistently through the first five albums.
Absolutely this. Immo's riffs just light up when the drumming is equally challenging. Compare those early albums with Kingdom.. where the drumming is pretty straight and blasting (nevermind the production.) The songs are lifeless by comparison.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:07 AM   #18
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Anyone who thinks stuff like Here In After isn't technical is an idiot.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:25 AM   #19
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

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Originally Posted by Nailed To Gold View Post
From Of Majesty and Decay, I'd say that A Glorious Epoch and The Rapture of Ghosts are really good songs. From Providence, What They Bring, Still Lost and Swallow The Fear are also really good songs.
oh I agree, I'm a huge Immolation fan. Just trying to elicit a response from Lichtbringer.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:34 AM   #20
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

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Originally Posted by temproh View Post




So you do like the old albums?



Even if that were true, why would it bother you so much? I'm asking because you seem to bring that up everytime Immolation is mentioned.

And I don't really care for CC, but the band seems far from tired to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilist View Post
Which was the last track that was "good"?
I do own HIA and CTAWB and used to think they were pretty good, yeah. I haven't listened to them in a while so I can't really give you any favourites, given how unmemorable their material is. I also didn't quite realize the latter was 17 years old...
I am "bothered" by this because this band gets attention they don't deserve. Give it to other bands that deserve it. Also, seeing how dead this board is, I feel the need to try and stir the pot a little bit... :)
When I think of "tired formula-Death Metal", I think of CC... I guess it's just me then!
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Old 01-17-2017, 01:24 AM   #21
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

I don't think the CC reference is that far off. Do you need much other than the first three LPs from either band? Both bands have put out more sub-par albums than good ones.

That being said, I am a big Immolation fan and look forward to the new record.
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:37 AM   #22
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

they always has strong close-up songs like the devil i know and s/t from closetawb which are my favourite tunes from them with under the supreme.
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:44 AM   #23
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

I think a couple of you are looking a gift-horse in the mouth. Cannibal Corpse are writing stellar material even to this day, albums from their classics. Immolation for me, as far up to Unholy Cult are masterpieces, anything else is a good two weeks in my life.
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Old 01-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #24
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

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Cannibal Corpse are writing stellar material even to this day
🤔
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:41 AM   #25
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

I've tried, but I think I'm just gonna give myself permission to not give a shit about anything after what? ...Unholy Cult?
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:16 AM   #26
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Correct, Unholy Cult was the last classic Immo.
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Old 01-28-2017, 09:50 AM   #27
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

New Immolation is always good, but I would like if they stayed away from this kind of productions.. Last albums sound very equal, changing studios/engineers would definitely add some fresh air to their songs.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:05 PM   #28
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

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Old 02-16-2017, 04:35 PM   #29
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

Turns out the album fucking rules. Best since Unholy Cult hands down
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:41 PM   #30
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Re: Immolation - Atonement

That's great news; UC and Failures for Gods are tied as my number 1.
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