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Old 06-17-2011, 01:53 AM   #1
Wild Amazon
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Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

I just saw in another thread how someone said Anata was 'real' tech/progressive metal and bands like Decrepit Birth and Obscura are just wankery. I only have a 9th grade musical education and like both wank and 'true tech'... whatever that is.

Most metal fans are instrumentalists themselves which is why they can appreciate the music better. So can a musician explain to non-musicians what we should be listening for in order to distinguish between wank and tech?

I read in Mean Deviation how Meshuggah plays in 4/4ths in a way that only 'sounds' more technical but isn't and that some of Tool's stuff is in 7/8ths or something but overall Meshuggah's stuff still sounds way more technical than Tool. So how exactly are they getting away with that illusion? What the hell am I supposed to be singling out to distinguish the fact that Tool plays in a different meter?

Is there a link to sound samples of what different time signatures sound like?

Last edited by Wild Amazon; 06-17-2011 at 02:27 AM..
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:57 AM   #2
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a good tip would be listen to whatever you like despite what others say.
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:26 AM   #3
Wild Amazon
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Originally Posted by Alejandro4891 View Post
a good tip would be listen to whatever you like despite what others say.
Emm, I believe I stated that....

But the fact is instrumentalists seem to have deeper insight and appreciation for music. I'm just wondering what all the fuss is over wank vs. tech and how those stances are taken in the first place. How exactly is Anata more or 'real' technical than Decrepit Birth?

Outside of any emotions/preferences, among like-minded metal listeners, how a band like Brain Drill or Sunn O))) can get such polar perceptions. Some say they are a masterpiece while some say they are shit noise...

But yeah, think I'll stick to this:


Last edited by Wild Amazon; 06-17-2011 at 02:28 AM..
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:22 PM   #4
el hijo del justino
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"Technical" = Vague Semantics.

"Technical" is an overused, undefined term that people use way too loosely, especially to describe metal. People have so many different ideas of what's "technical" and what's not, so there ends up being no actual definition. It just becomes this really misleading, ambiguous idea. Some people even treat it like this imaginary standard on how to judge bands.

There is no "true tech" (as opposed to "fake tech", I guess?). If a band plays music that's more challenging to listen to than another's, it doesn't make them "better", more legitimate, more talented, etc. It's subjective. "Technical" = vague semantics.


Here's a really basic intro to rhythm. It has a bunch of famous examples of common time signatures.

http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistra...thm/rhythm.htm
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:19 PM   #5
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everyone who listens to metal is in some way musician. He may play nothing, but he is musician in his head
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:17 PM   #6
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True, true
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Old 01-30-2012, 04:00 AM   #7
imbutawaveto
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holy shit this forum sucks.
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:18 PM   #8
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holy shit this forum sucks.
Hahhahah too true. I wish there was more activity and actual interesting discussions on here. Especially since a good amount of the posters on the DM board play guitar/other interments.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by djanicar View Post
everyone who listens to metal is in some way musician. He may play nothing, but he is musician in his head
+1
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:57 PM   #10
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Re: Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

Just enjoy what you enjoy. For anything, there is someone on the planet who will ridicule it.
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Old 01-04-2014, 03:55 PM   #11
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Re: Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

I'm sure this poster is long gone, but I'll take a stab at a legit answer to the question anyway...

The main difference I can see between Anata's best stuff and a lot of what's considered "tech" is that they often had multiple voices (bass + 2 guitars for example) playing independent melodic lines (polyphony) in addition to harmonizing. Some tech stuff is really fast and unpredictable, but there's essentially one single melodic line and the bass more-or less copies it, maybe omitting some of the passing notes or only playing the root, or harmonizing it in a relatively simple way...etc.

I never heard anyone claim that Anata was "real" tech, but if I had to guess they were probably trying to convey something about these polyphonic/harmonic aspects of the music. Anata also used a bit more restraint with their speed and density of notes in order to bring more focus to a particular rhythmic or melodic idea at any given time, which made it a lot more interesting as far as I'm concerned.

Decrepit Birth also started using some interesting polyphony in their music on DBW. I remember when I heard the early demo version of Living Doorway to Re-Existence, I thought it was going to be some next level shit. But I think the band got carried away with the speed, "catchiness", and shred aspects and never really made their harmonic ideas a central focus of the songs.



As for the Tool vs Meshuggah thing, to think that Tool is more complex because of what time signature they play in is to put the "cart before the horse" IMO. One of the things that's cool and interesting to me is when bands play unpredictable, complex or jarring rhythms - even disorienting rhythms. Playing in a different time signature might help a musician to come up with more interesting rhythms or create a different sonic effect, but it's only a tool. If they play in some complex time signature but then try to make the overall rhythms as smooth and intuitive sounding as possible, that might require skill, but the overall effect on the listener is what matters.

Both Meshuggah and Tool are skilled bands, and they clearly aren't attempting to create the same type of music or effect on the listener. Could Meshuggah write/play Tool songs if they WANTED to, or vice versa? I think that's an irrelevant question to ask about any kind of music/art. That would only be relevant if a member of one band wanted to audition to join the other.

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Old 01-13-2014, 04:03 AM   #12
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Re: Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

An exceptional tip might be listen to whatever you like instead of what others say.
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:16 PM   #13
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Re: Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

Log onto Youtube and act like you run shit that's how half these manchilds started bands
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:27 PM   #14
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Re: Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

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holy shit this forum sucks.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:34 PM   #15
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Re: Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

as long as it isn't elevator music, i'm all good.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:23 AM   #16
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Re: Tips For Non-Musicians Listening To Metal

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as long as it isn't elevator music, i'm all good.
What about the heaps brutal stuff?
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